Village of Long Grove

Village of Long Grove

Plan Commission Meeting Minutes

September 4, 2001

Present: Chairman Young, Commissioners Lisa Phillips, Gould, Jenkins, Fred Phillips, Di Iorio, Walter, Village Manager Doughty and Village Planner Kendig

Late: Commissioner Coffin (arrived at 8:10 p.m.)

Absent: Commissioner Borawski

I. MEETING GAVELED TO ORDER.

Meeting called to order by Chairman Young at 8:01 p.m.

II. MINUTES OF AUGUST 7, 2001.

Motion to accept the minutes of August 7, 2001, as presented, made by Commissioner Walter, seconded by Commissioner Jenkins. Ayes all. Motion carried.

III. OLD BUSINESS.

A. Valenti’s Long Grove Woods Phase II Annexation and Planned Unit Development.

Chairman Young provided Joseph Valenti, Jr. the opportunity to comment on the proposed development. Mr. Valenti summarized the twelve points from his August 21, 2001 letter to Village Manager Doughty, which was in response to Village Manager Doughty’s August 9, 2001 letter.

Chairman Young solicited comments from Commissioners. Commissioner Gould commented that there is nothing “exceptional” about the project, the open space is unbuildable, and the proposal does not meet the criteria for permitting sewer rather than septic; noted that the Village Board reaffirmed its preference for septic on July 24, 2001; is concerned about the size and clustering of lots; questioned when the internal improvements would be made; requests that the developer provide a plan that uses septic; and requested more information about what tress will be removed on the parcel. Village Planner Doughty noted that improvements must be completed in 2 years, though projects can be done in phases thereby increasing the time that all improvements would be completed. Mr. Valenti stated that he will advise as to what trees are being saved.

Commissioner Lisa Phillips concurs with Commissioner Gould and comments further that the developer needs to address the issue of clustering and the use of septic versus sewer; and that the Comprehensive Plan should be followed with respect to the septic/sewer issue.

Commissioner Jenkins commented that he is undecided on the septic versus sewer issue; the Comprehensive Plan is a guide not a legal document; as to scale, finds the lots are nicely laid out; expressed a concern that the homes are going to be too big and cited the Preserves as an example, whereas the Fields is an example of proper scale and screening; and is concerned that open space surrounds the lots, but is not woven into them, resulting in homes like in surrounding municipalities.

Commissioner Fred Phillips commented that he is in favor of sewer when there is a way to connect to the system, as septic will eventually fail; and the open space provided along No. Krueger favors granting permission for sewer.

Commissioner Walter commented that he disagrees with Commissioner Fred Phillips; the Commission has not seen the best effort for septic; there is a lot of wetland soil on the property that rules out building close to N. Krueger; agrees with Commissioner Gould and Commissioner Lisa Phillips regarding the Comprehensive Plan; noted that the Village Board reaffirmed the preference for septic over sewer at its July 24, 2001 meeting; that there is no overriding reason to permit the use of septic here; that by allowing sewer the next developer will ask for it as well; that there has been no septic failure in his neighborhood in his 16 year residency; and is concerned that the largest lots are still shy of one acre.

Commissioner Coffin commented on the septic versus sewer issue; described the trade off between open space and sewer; provided an historical perspective on the Village preference for septic as a means to reduce the density of development and the evolution of the control of development through the use of planned unit developments; is troubled by the lot size and building size, noting that Fields is an example of small lots that work; inquired whether one entrance is sufficient; and referred to the concerns of White Oak HOA.

Commissioner Di Iorio commented that sewer works very well and permits open space along N. Krueger; the emergency access issue needs to be resolved; the lot size/building size problem is created by having lots measured from the middle of roads and suggests that roads be owned by homeowners associations; and that in the Preserves garages are in front and homes have large gables in front to accommodate the location of the master bedroom.

Chairman Young asked Village Planner Kendig to comment on the impact of septic on wetlands. Village Planner Kendig noted that the bottom of the septic has to be 3 feet above the shallow water table; a properly operating septic system should have no impact on wetlands; the mound system is used because so many soils in Lake County are bad. If the water table is less than 3 feet (formerly a 2 foot standard) above the water table, the owner must use a mound system; and Lake County requires buffering of wetlands. Responding to Chairman Young, Village Planner Kendig was not immediately familiar with the failure rate for septic systems, and noted that failures may not be reported by homeowners. Commissioner Young further commented that he favors septic, but his opinion is changing; is concerned about owner awareness of septic issues; and noted that septic was required historically out of fear that quarter acre lots would appear, decimating open space.

The Commission discussed the capacity of the sewer system and the availability to other properties. It was noted that sewer is on a first come/first served basis, and future capacity and availability could not be guaranteed. Village Planner Kendig noted that the Pekara treatment facility has great capacity, but that there are not enough sewer lines in the area the system limits are in the pumping stations, and that there are only two vacant parcels adjoining the Valenti parcel-one in the Village and one in Hawthorn Woods. Village Manager Doughty commented that the Village can control access to sewer, within the sub-area, whether the parcel is in or out of the Village boundaries (and gave an example of a denial of a request for sewer connection by an owner of property outside the Village boundaries). A discussion ensued about the need to address the septic versus sewer issue Village wide and conserve sewer capacity in the event of widespread septic failure.

Chairman Young asked Mr. Valenti to comment on the emergency access issue. Mr. Valenti stated that the fire department will permit the single access off of N. Krueger.

Mr. Valenti continued with his presentation to the Commission. Mr. Valenti stated that he has presented 4 or 5 plans to respond to the Village’s concerns; 62 lots will work with wells and septic but the consumer wants sewer; septic will reduce open space along N. Krueger and infringe on tree line, but he is prepared to move forward as the Commission wants; homes on the southern party of the property will not be any closer to homes in White Oak than between existing homes in White Oak; described the species of trees on the property to include Box Elder, Willow, Cottonwood, Cherry, and Black Walnut; and would not agree to follow proposed, but not adopted, bulk housing regulations/housing design standards. Mr. Valenti provided the Commission with a Building Bulk Size Chart, dated September 4, 2001, prepared by JEN Land Design, Inc, showing, for example, that a home with 7,068 sq. feet of gross floor area could be built on a 26,000 sq. foot lot and that a home with 8,636 sq. feet of gross floor area could be built on a 42,000 sq. foot lot; and provided a brochure with a picture of a sample “tot lot.” Mr. Valenti concluded with his opinion that Village Ordinance, not the Comprehensive Plan, was controlling on the issue of the use of sanitary sewers.

The Commission discussed the issue of septic versus sewer under the Comprehensive Plan and Village Ordinance, noting that the Comprehensive Plan is not an ordinance, and that there is contradictory language in the Comprehensive Plan concerning septic/sewer. The Commission concluded that there is a need to address the septic versus sewer issue globally as Village policy.

Chairman Young indicated that the Commission needed to give Mr. Valenti direction.

Motion to recommend approval of the petition by Joseph Valenti, Jr. of Valenti Development Corp. for annexation of the approximately120 acres of property south of Gilmer and west of N. Krueger Roads, Long Grove Woods Phase II/Prairie Trails, for 62 single-family lots as an R-2 planned unit development with private roads, open space to be served by sanitary sewer, as reflected in the Preliminary Planned Unit Development Plat prepared by JEN Land Design, Inc. dated July 27, 2001 and revised August 7, 2001 made by Commissioner Di Iorio, seconded by Commissioner Walter. In a roll call vote, Commissioners Jenkins, Fred Phillips, Coffin, Di Iorio, Walter and Chairman Young voted aye. Commissioners Gould and Lisa Phillips voted nay. Motion carried.

B. Subdivision Landscape Regulations.

Village Planner Kendig presented proposed amendments to Section 6-5-5 Improvements Required under Title 6 of the Village Code. Village Planner Kendig discussed each of the proposals and the rationale for the suggestions. The Commission suggested further revisions to paragraph (E)(4) with respect to the timing of replacement of plants by a developer.

Motion to recommend revision to Section 6-5-5 Improvements Required under Title 6 of the Village Code as submitted by Village Planner Kendig, as revised in paragraph (E)(4) to provide that plants will be replaced by the developer within the two year period following inspection/approval of the landscape by the Village made by Commissioner Walter, seconded by Commissioner Fred Phillips. Ayes All. Motion Carried.

C. Housing Design Standards.

Village Planner Kendig commented on the catalyst for revising the housing design standards, and described three control methods. A developer can set architectural defaults as to architectural styles and features that the developer tracks and thereby avoids repetition (e.g., pattern book). Alternatively, there would be no pattern book, rather, homes must be submitted ahead of time for approval. Finally, standards could be developed that a developer must demonstrate on a case by case basis–this is the most difficult to do.

Village Manager Doughty raised legal issues about mandating patterns or regulating design; suggests that more limits are permitted in a PUD; and questions whether one bad experience justifies revising the housing design standards.

A discussion ensued concerning the need to avoid redundancy in homes, the Insignia approach (Village approval of the model location), and controls of trim, masonry, and false frontings.

Chairman Young requested Village Planner Kendig and Commissioner Coffin to suggest 4 or 5 design criteria for the Commission’s consideration.

(Commissioner Di Iorio left the meeting at 10:35 p.m.)

Add-On to Agenda: Indian Creek Club-Lot 96.

Tom Hickman of Kimball Hill Homes presented a request for a minor plat amendment for Lot 96 in Indian Creek Club. Village Manager Doughty reported that there is a conflict between the Building Box and the Detention and Conservancy Easement on Lot 96 in Indian Creek Club. The defined Building Box intersects with the Drainage Easement, leaving an odd shape box for a home. The request is to move the Building Box away from the Drainage Easement, so that a house can be built on the lot. The new Building Box will have a lesser impact on trees on the lot. There is a buyer for a home on this lot, adjacent Lot 95 is unsold.

Motion to recommend preliminary approval of minor plat amendment for Lot 96 in Indian Creek Club made by Commissioner Lisa Phillips, seconded by Commissioner Walter. All ayes. Motion carried.

D. Bulk Housing Regulation.

Village Planner Doughty stated that there is a concern that homes are getting too big for particular sites, and that current regulations are not as strict as some may think. The Commission reviewed Village Manager Doughty’s proposed revised Bulk Housing Regulations. A discussion ensued about the potential for a large house on a large multi-acre parcel and the impact of a subsequent subdivision of the property; the need to preserve open space; avoid problems be faced by other municipalities with “tear down” properties; and avoid monotony. Commissioner Walter inquired whether the concern to be addressed is the size of the house or its scale from “street view.” It was noted that different municipalities use different ratios (e.g., exclusion of attic/basement in bulk calculation.) The Commissioners discussed whether garage/attic space, and outlots should be included in the calculation of bulk. Village Planner Kendig noted that the Fields is an example of a development where the houses are in scale to the lots; however, a 5,000 square foot home could be built on a 10,0000 square foot lot, and noted the need to be sensitive to different issues related to small, medium, and large lots. Village Manager Doughty will obtain a copy of the Barrington Hills Bulk Housing Regulations for review by the Commission.

E. Undeveloped Land Map.

Commissioner Young reported that each Commissioner received a copy of the August 10, 2001 memo from Village Manager Doughty concerning undeveloped parcels in the Village that could be developed or protected as open space and park land, and noted that each Commissioner was assigned several parcels to review using the standards for consideration in the memo. Commissioner Young requested each Commissioner to prepare a report on each parcel for review at the December 2001 Commission meeting.

IV. NEW BUSINESS.

A. Long Grove Station Sub-Area Plan.

The Commission has received a referral for revisiting the Long Grove Station Sub-Area Plan, an area of approximately 300 acres north of the E.J.E Railroad and south of Midlothian Road for a land and use plan, which includes a future commuter station. Village Planner Kendig will provide a presentation at a future meeting.

B. Lake Cook Road and Route 53 Sub-Area Plan.

The Commission has received a referral for revisiting the Lake Cook Road and Route 53 Station Sub-Area Plan, an area north of Lake Cook Road along both sides of Route 53 for a sub-area plan detailing a combination of land and use plans. The request is to revise this sub-area plan and consider whether conditions have changed to require an amendment to the sub-area. Village Planner Kendig will provide a presentation at a future meeting.

Add-On to Agenda: Old McHenry Road/Route 22 Sub-Area Plan.

Motion to request that the Village Board refer the Old McHenry and Route 22 Sub-Area to the Plan Commission for consideration made by Commissioner Lisa Phillips, seconded by Commissioner Gould. Ayes all. Motion carried.

C. Development Evaluation.

Village Manager Doughty discussed his August 22, 2001 memo and the draft form for evaluating development after approval, completion of improvements and once the buildings in the development have been completed. Commissioners were requested to provide written comments to Village Planner Doughty.

V. COMMITTEE REPORTS - none.

VI. PLANNER’S REPORT - none.

VII. ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT - none.

VIII. ADJOURNMENT OF MEETING.