LONG GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
Commissioners Present: Eduardo L. Acuna, Charles Cohn, Joe Di Iorio, Tobin Fraley, Robert Jenkins, and Wendy Parr.
Commissioners Absent: Shelly Rubin
Chairman Present: Fred Phillips
Also Present: Village Superintendent Bob Block, Village Planner James Hogue, Plan Commission Secretary Jeff Kazmer, and Village Attorney Julie Tappendorf
1. Call to Order: Chairman Phillips called
the meeting to order at
2.
PUBLIC HEARING;
CONTINUATION – Consideration of Comprehensive
Amendments to the Village of Long Grove Zoning Code. Discussion by full PCZBA.
Chairman Phillips opened the Public Hearing Continuance by informing the audience that the Commission will continue where they left off. He also informed the audience that the Plan Commission was a recommending body, and that the Village Board would have final approval on the proposed Zoning Code. He then informed the audience that anyone in attendance that was sworn in at the last hearing is still under oath. He then swore in any new attendants that wished to give testimony to provide honesty.
Attorney Tappendorf stated that the Commission received a new letter from the LGBCP, which raised some new issues. She said that these issues could take some time to discuss and recommended saving them for later. She said that the Commission would start where they left off, with the open issues in Village Planner Hogue’s memo.
1. The Commission would refer to the Village Board whether or not the Village Board wanted to review events, or if they should be reviewed by staff.
2. The Commission proposes no Architectural Board review of single family homes. The Village will wait for the Illinois Legislature to make a ruling on the subject.
Commissioner Acuna asked whether PUDs would get Architectural Board review.
Attorney Tappendorf replied that they would if it is a condition of the PUD.
3. Swimming pools are covered in the Building Code. The language should be the same in the Zoning Code.
4. Concerning the regulations for O and OR, the regulations were crafted to fit the two existing properties in those districts to put them in compliance.
5 & 6. Height and floor area are the two biggest issues. Included in the memo are
samples of current and proposed regulations, as well as regulations of nearby
towns.
Commissioner Dvorak asked if there was a formula that the towns used to base their regulations on.
Attorney Tappendorf replied that she was not familiar with these particular formulas.
Superintendent Block said that he would give a brief history of the thirty five foot height regulation as he remembers it. In the sixties, fire departments were required to carry a thirty-five foot ladder. Many communities adopted the thirty-five foot height regulation so fire departments could reach the roofs of homes and ventilate them in the event of a fire.
There was some discussion by the Commission. It was noted that Long Grove measures height from the lowest point of the structure.
Commissioner Acuna stated that the intent of the Commission was to reduce bulk in sub-acre lots. He then asked if there were any lots in Long Grove less than 10,000 square feet.
Superintendent Block replied that
he believes the only smaller lots were in the Indian Creek subdivision, but
they have
Commissioner Acuna said he believes that any empty lots not governed by PUD regulations must conform to any new height requirements in the proposed Zoning Code.
Superintendent Block stated that
there are approximately 240 unbuilt lots in Long Grove. In a PUD, the Village
can regulate lot and home size. The
Commissioner Acuna stated that he agrees that the proposed Zoning Code should allow an exception for roof height for a walkout.
Commissioner Cohn also agreed to an exception for roof height for a walkout.
Commissioner Dvorak said he agrees with the proposed approach to walkouts.
Commissioner DiIorio said that other surrounding suburbs have relatively flat land that does not support walkout lower levels.
There was some discussion among the Commission.
Commissioner Di Iorio said that he agrees with the exception for walkouts.
Dave Korshak, of 3878 Woods End, a resident and a builder, said he likes high roof lines and thinks the Village would be lowering home values by adopting the proposed height regulations.
Mark from Reese Classic Homes,
said that
Susan Coveny, of ReMax Prestige Realty, said that this is a bad market with high taxes. These new regulations will drive customers away. She stated that if the Village passes these new regulations, it will ruin the market in Long Grove.
Peter Di Iorio, a builder, said
the competition is in
Commissioner Fraley read an excerpt from the Long Grove Comprehensive Plan, describing the Village’s uniqueness, rural charm, open space, and its occurrence through thoughtful planning. He stated that we were trying to create something different and special. Long Grove is not one of those other communities.
Commissioner Acuna said that the changes to height are on sub-acre lots. The Commission is discussing possible walk-out/lookout exceptions. The purpose of these proposed regulations is to control the sense of scale on lots which are relatively small.
Attorney Tappendorf said that language could be drafted to exempt PUDs that have already been approved.
Commissioner Acuna asked if we make exemptions for one subdivision, do we have to make an exemption for all.
There was some discussion.
Dee McLaughlin, of 4560 RFD, said that she appreciates beautiful architecture, but we are talking about lots of less that one acre. She said that she supports the proposal in keeping with the Comprehensive Plan and scale.
Lee Stein, 4459 RFD, in Royal Melbourne, said that everything should be to scale. The builders are right about scale, and the Village shouldn’t be driving customers away.
Carolyn Denaro, 3327 RFD, said
that she moved here from
Mike DeMar, 7222 RFD, a resident and developer, thanked the Plan Commission for their work. He stated that he called twenty-two recent homebuyers in Long Grove. Eighteen answered the phone. Of them, two had no opinion, and sixteen were happy with the way things were. He said that in Revenna, none of the homes are taller than thirty-four feet to roof peak.
Commissioner Di Iorio said that the majority of subdivisions consist of lots less than one acre. Builders are not coming here with all the current restrictions Long Grove has.
Resident Brad Williams asked what was the catalyst that made the Village look at these new proposals.
Chairman Phillips stated that homes were looking out of scale. For the last year, the Plan Commission has held open meetings to discuss these issues.
Attorney Tappendorf said that the Comprehensive Plan states that there should be a balance between the housing market and the character of the Village. Consistency with the Plan is important asto why the Plan Commission is looking at the entire Zoning Code.
Commissioner Dvorak said that the Village thought that it might be straying from the Comprehensive Plan, and it was time to take a step back and look at the Zoning Code.
Mark from Reese Classic Builders said that the Village was penalizing builders after projects have started. He said that the projects that the Board approved should remain as is. The restrictions should be on new developments.
Commissioner Dvorak stated that this was not a knee-jerk reaction. A lot of time has been spent discussing these issues.
Commissioner Acuna stated that he has been on the Plan Commission for approximately five years. Bulk has always been an issue, but it has been hard to define and change. The Village does not want to unduly prohibit builders and homeowners, but it must protect the character of the Village. He stated that he believes that the character of the Village has changed over the last ten to fifteen years, but the Plan Commission has a responsibility to follow the Comprehensive Plan.
Mike DeMar asked about sub-acre lots automatically being part of a PUD, and if so, cannot the Village regulate them anyway.
Commissioner Acuna said that the proposal is that only a percentage of the non-build able land would be counted when determining the build able area.
Don Silich, a custom home builder, said that the Village should keep the thirty-five foot roof height regulation. He said it was not about money for the builders, but about creativity.
Commissioner Cohn said that the new proposals are comparable to surrounding communities.
Chairman Phillips asked the Commissioners if they would like to take a vote.
There was some discussion about walkouts, lookouts, and bulk. Exposed lower levels with more than two feet above grade should be counted in the floor area ratio.
Any side exposed more than two feet would add twenty-five percent of that level’s floor area to the total, assuming a four sided structure.
Chairman Phillips asked the Commissioners for their recommendations.
The recommendations were a thirty-one foot mean roof height. An exception should be made for homes with a walkout or a lookout to have a thirty-five foot mean roof height. Any lower level with more than two feet exposed above grade would add twenty-five percent to the floor area for each side exposed, assuming a four sided structure. Definitions will be added for these regulations.
All on the Commission were in favor of the proposal. None opposed.
Attorney Tappendorf said that the next subject for consideration was floor area.
Commissioner Acuna said that changing the maximum floor area of homes on sub-acre lots would bring them closer to the regulations used in neighboring communities, but the main reason for changing them is to more closely follow the Comprehensive Plan.
Commissioner Di Iorio said that he was concerned about the ten thousand square foot lots. He said he believes that the proposed floor area for those lots is too small.
There was some discussion. There are very few unbuilt lots of ten thousand square feet or less in the Village.
Superintendent Block said that the Village prefers having a minimum of thirty-three thousand square foot lots in new PUDs.
Mike DeMar said that on a thirty-five hundred square foot house, when you subtract for a walkout, a two-story space, and a garage, you are left with only nineteen hundred square feet of living space. He said on a thirty thousand square foot lots, it works out to sixty one eighty, and when you subtract the above mentioned items, you are left with only thirty-two hundred square feet of living area. He asked if this is what the Commission wanted to do. He said that lots are very expensive.
Chairman Phillips asked the Commissioners if they are in agreement with the proposed floor area regulations.
All were in favor except for Commissioner Di Iorio.
Commissioner Di Iorio said that he wants four thousand, fifty-five hundred, and seven thousand square feet of floor area for the ten, twenty, and thirty thousand square foot lots respectively.
The majority of the Commissioners agreed on the original proposal.
Superintendent Block said these new regulations may block some home additions because of the maximum floor area ratio.
There was some discussion, and it was asked if a variation could be applied for.
Attorney Tappendorf said that only some variations are allowed for in the Code, including yards and signs, but not floor area ratio.
Commissioner Di Iorio said he wants covered, un-enclosed porches excluded from the floor area calculation if they are on the front side of the house.
There was some discussion on the architectural merits of front porches and their use as a gathering place.
Superintendent Block said that the most recent remodels included sunrooms, master bedrooms, bathrooms, extra garages, and kitchens.
Chairman Phillips asked the Commission for a vote on the proposed floor area regulations.
All were in favor except for Commissioner Di Iorio.
Commissioner Di Iorio said that he was against the square footage regulations and wanted to exclude front porches from the calculations.
Attorney Tappendorf explained the parking proposal. She noted that there was a study done by BDI concerning parking requirements in another town. She suggested that the Village defer decreasing the parking requirements until a similar study is done in the Village.
Chairman Phillips asked the Commission for a vote on the parking proposal.
All Commissioners were in favor of the parking proposal.
The question of affordable housing parking requirements was scratched.
The next topic for discussion was signage.
Commissioner Fraley said the he believes that signage quality is more important than the overall size of the signs for the downtown area, and could enhance the character and feel of the downtown.
The topic of signs was tabled for later.
The next topic for discussion was fences.
Superintendent Block said that
subdivisions and single lots with no subdivision relate to the new regulations
for fencing differently. The site determines whether something makes sense or
not. He said that under the current building codes, a fence can be erected
anywhere except in a scenic corridor or along a
The Commission unanimously agreed to leave the current fencing
regulation as is.
Superintendent Block explained yard setbacks. He recommended that Section
Attorney Tappendorf said that Long Grove must comply with State Law for variation procedures. She said the LGBCP would like to streamline the process for hardship for signs. Since Long Grove is not a Home Rule community, it must comply with State Law.
Superintendent Block said there needs to be some changes to the definitions in the proposed Code on page 180 concerning floor area gross and floor area net. For Floor Area Gross, commercial basements must be added to the floor area ratio. For Floor Area Net, commercial basements must also be added.
The proposed changes were noted.
Commissioner Fraley made a motion to continue the Public Hearing to the February 20, 2007 Special Meeting.
Second by Commissioner Cohn.
All ayes, no nays. Motion carried.
3.
Approval of
Minutes;
Commissioner Dvorak made a motion to postpone the approval of the
meeting minutes in question to the next meeting.
Second by Commissioner Jenkins.
All ayes, no nays. Motion carried.
4.
Other
Business;
Village Planner Hogue stated that
at the
There was no other business.
5. Adjournment;
Commissioner Fraley made a motion to adjourn the meeting.
Second
by Commissioner Parr.
All ayes, with Commissioner Jenkins abstaining. No nays. Motion
carried.
Meeting adjourned at
6.
Next Special
Meeting –
Respectfully submitted,
Jeff Kazmer
Long Grove PCZBA Secretary