VILLAGE OF
LONG GROVE
Long Grove Plan Commission & Zoning Board of Appeals (LGPCZBA)
December 4,
2007 Meeting Minutes
Commissioners Present: Shelly Rubin , Mike Dvorak, Joe DiIorio, Jeff Kazmer, Wendy Parr, Robert Jenkins, Tobin Fraley, Charles Cohn
Chairman: Fred Phillips
Also present: Village Planner James Hogue; Planning Commission Secretary Terri Taylor; Village Attorney Jon Furr; Village Superintendent Bob Block
Also present in the audience: members of the public
To begin, Chairman Phillips
requested that all cell phones be turned off. No microphone was available for
the meeting as the
Chairman Phillips provided an overview of the Plan Commission and the process by which decisions are made.
All Commissioners and others present at the table were asked to introduce themselves to the public, providing their name, years of residence in Long Grove and number of years serving on the PCZBA and Plan Commission.
Attorney Furr then provided a brief overview of the zoning approvals that were currently up for review. 1). Zoning text amendment – HR1 District is new, requiring a planned unit development (PUD) process for the proposed Sunset Grove development; 2). Zoning Map would require amendment; 3). PUD ordinance – will provide for a special use permit and establish various parameters fro the development through this ordinance.
Chairman Phillips then swore in the audience and explained the process of the meeting. The presenter would have the opportunity to present their proposed project, then members of the audience would be able to ask questions and give comments, after which the Commissioners would ask questions or make comments about the project.
Mr. Michael Firsel was introduced and began the project presentation. Mid-America Development Partners, LLC is a developer specializing in retail and hotel development. He reviewed various projects his business has completed as well as some in progress. Projects in progress total around $1.2 billion. He stated that his company has no issues with regard to financial resources or completing projects.
The name of the proposed project is Sunset Grove, LLC. Mr. Firsel referred to the site plan visual, which shows the 14 acres that are currently owned as well as the one additional property under contract for purchase. The total space for the project is 16.5 acres.
Mr. Firsel
wanted to clear up any misconceptions related to this project. 1). The project ends to the south at
This project began approximately three years ago. The Sunset Foods building will be approx. 48,300 sq. feet. The proposed project will contain six buildings. Firsel listed the proposed buildings and possible tenants of those buildings.
What is shown on the site plan is what has been planned to date. Any alterations that occur must come back to the PCZBA for review and approval. The start of this project upon approval, is anticipated for May 1, 2008. Grading would be done first pending approvals. They hope to open the first store (Sunset Foods) in summer 2009.
Each building has its own dedicated parking spaces. However, the entire center is cross-parked, meaning that customers can park anywhere within the center and walk to each building.
Mr. Firsel provided a listing of possible tenants: bank with drive-thru, coffee house, small restaurant, dry cleaner, national drugstore, and Sunset Foods.
There is a proposed fence
(reference to site plan drawings) along the east property line. This proposal
was shared with the project’s neighbors for feedback. The addition of
evergreens inside the fence is proposed as an additional visual shield. At this
time, there are no plans for a gate for pedestrian entrance from the
As proposed, no water run off would occur to the east. The water detention basin located at the northeast corner of the property would be used for fighting fires as well as providing adequate stormwater detention.
Introduction of Mr. John Cortesi, president of Sunset Foods then began a presentation.
Sunset Foods has been looking to develop in Long Grove for a few years. They
currently have four stores. It is their 70th anniversary. The plan
for the Long Grove store is a cross between their Libertyville and
Mr. Firsel then referenced the site plan with regards to vehicular access to the property, showing entry and exit points on the map.
He then indicated three areas of concern that were brought to his attention previously by neighbors, and some proposed solutions to these issues:
A. Noise – the loudest sounds will be from trucks. The furthest this sound would carry is 70 feet before it would fall below levels of concern per EPA requirements. Also, an 8-foot solid fence and tall evergreens are proposed to mitigate noise.
B. Lighting – no light will leak off the perimeter of the property. All lights will reflect downward and not outward. All installed lighting will adhere to community standards.
C. Views – photos were taken of the property looking outward in all directions taken in early December 2007 and referenced by Mr. Firsel.
Overall, the desire of this project’s design is to maintain the rural atmosphere of the Long Grove area. All buildings will be single story.
Mr. Mike Fitzgerald, architect (OKW Architects) for the project, was introduced and reviewed the proposed architectural and landscape plans.
The client was looking for a series of detached buildings that are similar to the downtown Long Grove style. The arrangement proposes smaller buildings set closer to the streets and larger buildings set to the back of the property. Parking areas wrap around buildings. Deliveries and trash areas would be placed behind buildings and out of sight. Significant landscaping would be done. The plan is to preserve or relocate trees if possible and to meet or exceed the Village’s landscaping requirements.
The site sits lower than Rt. 83, about 3’-7’ lower some in areas. A planned 2’-3’ hedgerow around the property perimeter would block headlights from parked cars. Significant vegetation is planned along the east side, mostly evergreens, plus some deciduous trees, 1/3 of which are native species. A variety of plants will be used to give year round interest to the landscaping. There would also be substantial planting in the detention pond area.
The architecture also responds to the character of Long Grove with single story buildings and by using natural and traditional materials. Details of gabled roofs, clapboard siding, natural stone bases and awnings add to the historic feel. Each building would have its own color palette but work in conjunction with the overall earth tone colors of the entire development.
Strict limitations will be in place to maintain a common look throughout the center with regard to signage.
Mr. Jeremy Foss, project engineer, was introduced to explain the proposed infrastructure and stormwater retention plan for the project.
The storm sewer design works using a 30-foot grade drop from the southwest to northeast corner to drain runoff towards the detention pond. The development will tap into the existing sanitary sewer on Rt. 83.
Mr. Greg Gruen was introduced to explain water supply and fire protection elements of the project.
He described two deep sandstone aquifer wells that are proposed for water supply. IDPH will be approving all permits on water. He also explained that the detention pond can hold over 500,000 gallons of runoff water which could be used in the event of a fire. Fire pumps would be installed to pressurize the water for fire protection purposes.
Luay Aboona, traffic engineer for the project, was then introduced. He previously worked on the Menard’s development project in Long Grove.
He explained the overall traffic
access plan. Main access to the property would be from Rt. 83 at
Mr. Aboona stated that studies conducted during peak travel times indicate many customers would already be a part of the existing traffic flow and therefore should cause no added impact to the amount of traffic to the area. He indicated with the proposed improvements (as a part of this project) to the transportation infrastructure traffic impacts overall would not be made any better nor any worse.
This concluded the presentation by the developer of the proposed project and Chairman Phillips opened the discussion to the public.
Pat Weltman, 1135 Thompson asked if there was anything proposed for the area south of this project.
Mr. Firsel responded “no.”
Gerard Ostick,
Mr. Foss responded, “no.” That if anything were upstream to the drain tile, it would flow into the existing drain tile, causing no overflow. And old drain tiles would be brought into the new ones.
Mr. Bob Block, Village Superintendent, also added that according to existing statute, it would not be legal to break a drain tile thus causing backup/overflow onto adjacent properties.
Adalaide Schubel,
An
Chairman Phillips asked to hold on this for now to allow other specific questions and comments.
Larry Wagner,
Joe Chiczewski, village engineer, responded that IDOT must review all permits related to the proposal and approve before moving forward with the plan.
Wally Schubel,
Steve Russo,
Mr. Firsel
indicated there will be 500’ to 600’ from the property line of the proposed
development to the rear of the existing houses on the west side of
Mr. Russo then wanted to know how tall the trees will be. Mr. Firsel responded that they will be around 20’ and that there will probably be less noise than exists today for the neighbors to the east due to the structures and trees that will block more sound.
Mr. Russo also wanted to know if the detention pond will contribute to the area’s mosquito problems. Engineer Foss said there will be an aeration device to prevent that.
Ira Nevel, 5227 RFD said he was concerned about possible overflow of Aptakisic Creek because the outflow of the detention pond will flow into the creek.
Engineer Foss described how the pond works and that the slow flow of water into the creek is the same as existing conditions and would not cause the creek to overflow.
Barbara Turner, 3853 RFD, Long Grove said she was concerned with the amount of natural surface that would be covered by the parking lot. She expressed hope that the developer would explore “green” options that might allow water to flow through the parking surfaces rather than to create as much water runoff.
Rachel Perkal, 3612 RFD said she has mixed feelings over the project. She wonders whether Long Grove really needs another bank and other proposed uses.
Monica Bedrosian, 5129 Arlington Heights Road/Thompson is concerned over traffic and pedestrians in the area. She feels this could be dangerous and increase traffic.
James Heller, 1445 Larchmont,
wanted to know if Long Grove was working with
Prabir Sen-Gupta, 4148
Chairman Phillips explained that all available resources from the Comprehensive Plan to public testimony are used to determine whether this project can move forward. He also said that many alterations might have to occur before the project would be approved by the PCZBA.
Mark Moctinger, 980 Thompson, is also concerned with Thompson being used as a cut-through street. He said it is already a problem and sees it getting worse with the project moving forward. He requested that LG and BG work closely together to determine how this project will affect the immediate neighborhoods.
Ro Bochin, 1383 Larchmont, wanted to know if this project’s scope is “all” or “nothing”?
Chairman Phillips responded that all items are subject to Plan Commission review.
Kevin Thomas, 5266 RFD stated that he knows the Village is running out of revenue sources and that this is one of the main reasons this project might move forward. He wanted to know what was being approved here at this meeting exactly.
Mr. Thomas also was concerned about the height and amount of light fixtures proposed.
Mr. Firsel responded that there were 21 single and 14 double pole lights planned and that no light would “leak” from the property.
Mr. Thomas also expressed concern that turning left into the Sunset Grove property from Aptakisic would be difficult given traffic volumes at that location.
Jenny Sun-Gupta, 4148
Village ordinance prohibits internally illuminated and flashing signs, so there should not be a concern.
Barbara Turner, 3853 RFD, urged the developer to increase native trees and plants to 50% of those used. She also asked if both wells were to be deep wells and if “pedestrian pathways” would be added to this development.
Mr. Firsel answered “yes” to both questions. The pathways would be placed along the outside perimeter along Rt.83.
Vernadeen Martlock, 3458 RFD, asked if the drugstore would operate 24 hours a day?
Mr. Firsel answered “no”.
Adalaide Schubel said she thought it would be nice to add a water (e.g. fountain) or plant feature within the project.
Ellen Deasy, 1751 RFD, asked if there would be any conservancy displacement and expressed concern regarding loss of nature and wildlife.
Mr. Firsel answered “no”. The property contains no jurisdictional wetlands or conservancy areas at this time.
Chairman Phillips then asked that the Commissioners be given the opportunity to ask questions of the developer and make comment.
Commissioner Rubin thought the presentation was very complete and complimented the developer. He shared with the audience the guidelines that are used when making decisions related to a project such as this one. He asked about how tall the tallest portion of the project would be. Developer answered 50’9”. He then asked the Firsel what his thoughts were regarding the requests made by the residents on the west side of Rt. 83.
Mr. Firsel responded that he could not plan, build or physically plant trees on property he did not own, but that he would be willing to pay for a reasonable amount of the tree planting. He was happy to cooperate with the neighbors.
Commissioner Dvorak said that he’d like for an amount of money to be established in an agreement with the residents on the west side of Rt. 83. He asked if IDOT would be awaiting Village Approval before deciding upon the road changes. Mr. Firsel responded that the plan had already been submitted to IDOT. Mr. Joe Checzewski explained that IDOT supercedes the Village’s decisions.
Commissioner Dvorak then asked whether there was any way to control the tenants on the property. The PUD ordinance and zoning covers limitations to non-retail tenants. Quality assurance would exist over approval of tenants. He also expressed concern over the location of the pathways on the property and asked the developer if there was any way to make this look less like a strip mall.
Commissioner Parr brought up some conflicts between statements made at tonight’s hearing compared with the paperwork that was submitted. Mr. Firsel said that some of the information that had been submitted prior to the meeting was not as current as the presentation and that he could provide updated materials.
She expressed a need to promote
pedestrian traffic to and from the downtown area and thought a sidewalk across
Commissioner Parr asked about seeing an environmental report or a species report if they were available about the property. She also asked if they planned to remove all existing trees. Firsel responded “no”, that only those necessary would be taken down and that only 12 of the existing trees were indigenous.
Commissioner Fraley expressed environmental concerns and wants to see more green and trees planted bigger to start with. Native species are important. He expressed concern that he did not think the plan looks like “Long Grove” and objected to the lack of creativity in the design. He asked if they planned to look at permeable pavement?
Commissioner Rubin asked Commissioner Fraley about how the downtown merchants are feeling about this proposed project. As a merchant, Fraley said he does not see it as a positive or a negative. As a resident he said it would be a benefit for revenue and an improvement.
Commissioner DiIorio asked about the depth of the detention basin. The developer responded that it is 7’. He also commented on the penetrable pavement and the addition of oak trees. He asked about consideration for sanitary sewers and future needs. The sanitary sewer should be extended to the east property line. This would be for future use of the home owner who now has very old septic fields. He also asked about what type of stone was proposed for the buildings. Mr. Firsel answered that a number of different types of stone were under consideration. Commissioner DiIorio stated that the detention basin needs an oil separator before the storm water is sent further downstream.
Upon completion of Commissioner DiIorio’s comments, Chairman Phillips made a motion to
continue this public hearing at the next meeting in January. Not all
Commissioners had a chance to speak. Meeting would again need to be held at
Commissioner
Dvorak made a motion; seconded by Commissioner Parr to approve the minutes from
the October 2, 2007 meeting. On a voice vote; all aye.
Commissioner
Fraley made a motion; seconded by Commissioner Dvorak to approve the 2008
meeting dates with January 16, 2008 as the regular January meeting date. On a voice vote; all aye.
Commissioner
Parr made a motion to adjourn; seconded by Commissioner Fraley to adjourn the
meeting. All ayes no nays. Meeting was adjourned at
11:03 p.m.
Respectfully
Submitted,
Terri
Taylor; Secretary, Long Grove PCZBA