VILLAGE OF LONG GROVE
LONG GROVE PLAN COMMISSION
FEBRUARY 20, 2007 MEETING MINUTES
Commissioners present: Eduardo L. Acuna, Charles Cohn, Joe Di Iorio, Mike Dvorak, Tobin Fraley, Robert Jenkins, Shelly Rubin, and Wendy Parr
Chairman present: Fred Phillips
Also present: Village Superintendent Bob Block, Village Planner James Hogue, Plan Commission Secretary Jeff Kazmer, and Village Attorney Julie Tappendorf
Amendments to the Village of Long Grove
Zoning Code. Discussion by full PCZBA.
Chairman Phillips said that this would be a continuation of the last meeting, and that everyone in the audience was at the last meeting, so they were still sworn in and under oath.
Attorney Tappendorf stated that at the last meeting the Commission had gotten thru all but signage and the memo from the LGBCP. Some of these issues have already been addressed:
Section
Section
John Maguire of LGBCP asked if a static display would be a special event, such as a sculpture display.
Attorney Tappendorf replied that if it was temporary, it would be a special event. If it were permanent, it would be structure and subject to accessory structure regulations.
Section
would be a policy issue for the Commission. There was some discussion.
Commissioner Dvorak said he would like the limitations to be more than twenty-four hours but less than two weeks.
Chairman Phillips said that it seems the recommendation from the Commissioners is to have a fourteen day limit, and if it needs to be longer, to ask for special use.
Section
Commissioner Acuna thinks the business merchants should pay for any study done.
Attorney Tappendorf
said that the BDI study suggested that Long Grove perform a similar study as
Commissioner Cohn said that he would like to see the Village and the merchants split the cost of a study if it is done.
John Maguire said that the new process for parking is streamlined.
Section
John Maguire said that storage space should be excluded.
Superintendent Block said it was his opinion that the ordinance should stay with the same definition of floor area in commercial space and residential space.
It would be easier to control.
Attorney Tappendorf said that it was an issue of bulk, whether it was a public space or a private space.
All Commissioners indicated agreement.
John Maguire asked about parking structures.
Superintendent Block said that they are regulated under the building code and the zoning ordinances.
Section
Attorney Tappendorf said that as a non home rule community, the Village is not able to modify the variation process under State law.
John Maguire asked about neon signs being prohibited across the board. He said that businesses need to be open after dark, and they need to illuminate their signs.
Attorney Tappendorf said that the regulation on sign illumination has not changed. A sign can have a light shining on it, but it cannot be internally illuminated.
John Maguire said the merchants need to let the customers know that their business is open. Some businesses have old glass and the customers cannot see inside their shops.
Commissioner Jenkins said that he thinks that neon signs are OK if they are in character. Small open signs inside the shops would be OK.
Chairman Phillips asked for comments from the Commissioners.
There was some discussion.
Commissioner Cohn said these signs should be permitted only with a hardship variance.
Commissioner Acuna said he was not in favor of re-opening this issue.
Chairman Phillips said that it appears the Commission is split about 50/50 on the subject.
Chairman Phillips said that there are small neon open signs available for purchase everywhere. He would like to see the signs more indicative of the special character of Long Grove.
Commissioner Fraley said he would like to see some pre-approved signs available for use in the Village.
Commissioner Acuna asked about homeowners having internally lit house numbers.
Commissioner Di Iorio said he wants several alternatives from the Architectural Board.
Commissioner Parr said she favors the Architectural Board adopting some specifications so the businesses would be consistent.
Commissioner Rubin said that internally lit signs can be advantageous, and he would like review of the signs.
Commissioner Acuna said he was against these types of signs.
Commissioner Cohn said he wants to keep the historic character, and was not comfortable with internally lit signs.
There was some discussion.
Chip Ulrich of the Village Tavern
asked who these signs would bother. He said no one lives in the downtown. He
said that he cannot have neon beer signs, but Mel’s
Commissioner Acuna said that he thinks that Commissioner Fraley’s proposal is fair.
Commissioner Fraley said the downtown is fighting a long history of not being open in the evenings. We need to let the shoppers know the shops are open. His shops are well lit and it is easy to know they are open. Other shops have a harder time letting customers know they are open.
Attorney Tappendorf said that internally lit signs are not currently allowed in the Code and the Draft Code retains that restriction. The question for the Commission is whether that should change and how they could be regulated.
Superintendent Block said the Village could come up with some specifications. He recommends a size of 144 square inches. There should not be discrimination of different signs. The Architectural Board could come up with some recommendations.
Commissioner Jenkins said that the Architectural Board and the merchants could get together and decide on some possible designs.
Chip Ulrich of the Village Tavern said that no one is being offended by these signs. This is to keep the businesses open. It doesn’t hurt anyone. He said he could be fined if he puts up beer signs, but other businesses have neon open signs.
He said that he has been here since 1950. There has been much improvement in the last two years, but much needs to be done.
John Maguire said the shops need to sell more during more hours of the day. This is not to compromise the character of the town, but to make businesses more competitive. They need to compete after dusk and pay the rent until street lights and other amenities are installed.
Commissioner Fraley said now you could go through the variation process to get an internally sign.
Commissioner Acuna said he is opposed to internally illuminated signs.
All other Commissioners were in favor of the use of the variation process.
Superintendent Block said he wants the sign ordinance for all the districts.
There was some discussion.
Attorney Tappendorf said the B1 and B2 Districts are currently regulated differently in the Code because they are unique.
There was some more discussion.
The Commission decided the variation process would be for both the B1 and B2 Districts.
Resident Barbara Turner said the B1 District should be different because it is historic.
There was a consensus to allowing one internally lit “OPEN” sign per business.
Section
Attorney Tappendorf said 10% of the total window space is standard for most communities.
John Maguire said many of the businesses have old windows and many windows are divided. They need more space for signage.
There was some discussion by the Commission.
The Commission decided to keep the current 10% restriction and allow larger percentages of the window space by variance.
Section
John Maguire said he recommends a sixty day window for seasonal decorations to stay in place.
The Commission agreed.
Section
Attorney Tappendorf said sandwich board signs are prohibited now and under the proposed code.
Peg Ball of LGBCP read a sample
sandwich board regulation from
Attorney Tappendorf said that the rationale behind the restrictions is visual clutter, on sidewalks they become a safety issue, and also at issue is whether they are displayed on Village or private property.
Commissioner Jenkins said he thinks sandwich boards should be permitted with restrictions. Signs need to direct customers to the hidden shops.
Commissioner Acuna asked about signs up near the road.
Commissioner Jenkins said he thinks they should be permitted but taken down at night.
There was some discussion.
Commissioner Jenkins said we need to remember this is a commercial district even if it is historic.
Commissioner Acuna said this is our downtown and it is very important. There needs to be a balance between the merchants and the character of the Village.
Commissioner Fraley said he is not a fan of sandwich boards. If they are allowed, there could be too many cluttering some areas.
Attorney Tappendorf said these signs are typically prohibited in nearby communities.
Chairman Phillips said some merchants have elected to have these signs. If we allow them, we could possibly have 100 signs in the downtown. If we prohibit them, only a few would remain.
Commissioner Acuna said we should leave the sign ordinance in place and have the Architectural Board create some guidelines.
Chairman Phillips said that rather than sandwich boards, he would like to see sign posts with the names displayed of the businesses.
There was some discussion.
Commissioner Acuna said he wants to keep the sandwich boards prohibited, but encourage the merchants to work with the Architectural Board through the variation process.
Chairman Phillips said open signs could also be displayed on sign posts.
Section
John Maguire said the 1 – 500 and 500 – 1000 square foot categories need to be on the same level playing field.
The Commission decided that twelve square feet should be allowed for both categories.
Attorney Tappendorf
said there could be a modification to Section
Commissioner Di Iorio said he does not like stockade fencing. He wants seventy-five percent of fencing to be open.
Attorney Tappendorf said there is no fence regulation in the Zoning Code. The Commission could recommend to the Village Board to regulate fencing in the fence regulations of the Village Code.
There was some discussion.
There was no recommendation to the Village Board.
Commission Di Iorio asked about automobiles FOR SALE in the Village.
Superintendent Block said they have to be parked on the owner’s driveway.
Chairman Phillips asked the Commission for their recommendation on the proposed code.
Commissioner
Acuna made a motion to recommend the approval of the
Comprehensive Amendments to the
Second
be Commissioner Rubin
All ayes. No nays.
Motion
carried.
Commissioner
Jenkins made a motion to approve the
Second by Commissioner Rubin.
All ayes. No nays. Motion Carried.
Commissioner
Rubin made a motion to approve the
Second by Commissioner Acuna.
All ayes. No nays. Motion Carried.
Commissioner
Rubin made a motion to approve the
Second by Commissioner Cohn.
All ayes. No nays. Motion carried.
Second by Commissioner Dvorak.
All ayes. No nays. Motion carried.
Meeting adjourned at
Respectfully submitted.
Jeff Kazmer
Long Grove PCZBA Secretary